*TLDR: First Kratom good, sober bad. Second Kratom bad, sober bad. Third Kratom good, sober good. Time: months to years to all life. *

Remember that the drug giving you these feelings doesn't mean you have these feelings sober. So one moment you plan all sorts of nice things with your family, come off Kratom for whatever reason, then start to cancel the plans leading them to be angry at you, or if you still haven't realised how much you hate your family, you go along and end up sitting in your room alone, or getting into arguments and wishing you just had some Kratom around so things would be fine.... and that can become a dependence for you.

This is a positive comment in my eyes. I too like to take either Phenibut or some Kratom before seeing my family, but I always know that once I come off them the pain they caused me through life results in their own emotions and a lot of them have destroyed my life and caused me to use drugs in the first place.

So as long as you don't lose touch of how you REALLY feel (and I know there is no "real" feelings as in how can you say what is real and what is fake etc in a deep philosophical way) but if we take what real is as what everyone else agrees is reality and trying to function in society, then you need to know how you feel then without drugs and what you are going to do to explore them or deal with them other than drugs.

You can use drugs to get to that point, enjoy a rough af life, even lead to insightful experiences and growth. But at some point if you have forgotten what you feel like when you are sober, that is the time to call for a break until you remember how, in my case, sad angry and anxious I am at everything, devise a plan how I'm going to get better and not rely on drugs, then once I'm satisfied or got the best I got, I go back on using drugs until I'm at a point I can change things and manifest them in sober life.

In my case I have to wait a lot before things change with the help of other people (having tried and failed so many times my self) and people are busy and there are gaps in between talking about plans, finalising them and acting them. During those acts is when bored overcomes me and I need relief through drug use.

Last point, a lot of people say you have to be off drugs and have your life in order to create the chance for possibilities to come along and seize them, where as if your house is a mess as is your mind and you are using drugs you may miss these opportunities, piss people off trying to help you and feel all sorts of guilt.. leading to more drug use.

All of this is like a dance, an art, an experience you figure out there is no one way to get there. And dancing between drug addiction, dependence and abuse, mental health issues, family and society, jobs, government taxes/benefits is a whole fucking monster that this dance could only be described as dancing outside hells gates trying as best you can in hope the devil is pleased by this and gives you another chance.

submitted by /u/TraditionalIce
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