:cry: I've been taking 15 to 25 gms of kratom daily for post op. joint surgery. I took it for about 6 weeks. I took an occasional day off and took prescribed opiates instead. I was told opiates are usually taken for 6 weeks. So I've been dinging my opiate receptors for about 7 weeks (one week in the hospital on oxycodone). The last day I took kratom was Sunday. I took around 25 gms. Monday night I slept very little. Now Tuesday evening I'm feeling anxious and a little depressed. Anyone go through this? Can you tell me what to expect? I'm drinking some Kava but it helps very little. I guess it's better then opiates but!!!! A little bummed. Thanks in advance!!!!!!

Where you using plain leaf kratom or some kind of extract? Hard to imagine 6 weeks of Kratom would give you much issue, but everyone is different. But six weeks of extract or enhanced/enriched leaf definitely could cause problems. How much and long did you take the oxy?

@'ansony': > :cry: I've been taking 15 to 25 gms of kratom daily for post op. joint surgery. I took it for about 6 weeks. I took an occasional day off and took prescribed opiates instead. I was told opiates are usually taken for 6 weeks. So I've been dinging my opiate receptors for about 7 weeks (one week in the hospital on oxycodone). The last day I took kratom was Sunday. I took around 25 gms. Monday night I slept very little. Now Tuesday evening I'm feeling anxious and a little depressed. Anyone go through this? Can you tell me what to expect? I'm drinking some Kava but it helps very little. I guess it's better then opiates but!!!! A little bummed. Thanks in advance!!!!!! First, Welcome to the forum, ansony  :welcomewave: I'm sorry to see that you are confused & having problems. In all honesty, Biz has already asked all the questions that I would at this point. I agree with him that it's hard, very hard, to imagine 6 weeks of PL giving you much if any issue at all. Until we know more we cannot even begin to help you clear up your confusion. Perhaps a little more info about strain & vein color? Have you ever used kratom in the past? By "dinging my opiate receptors" are you talking about opiates or kratom or both &, btw, you do understand that kratom is not an opiate, right?  What is your ultimate goal? Were/are you intending to utilize kratom like you would any post op pain medication? Yeh, I'm definitely in need of more information here, ansony.  Hope to here back from you soon …  :P

I believe that less is more.  I would shuffle the strains around, keep receptors guessing.  If you already are doing that and you are still taking 25 grams per day for pain, I would attempt to incorporate your opiate med in small but regular doses and try to keep your kratom dosage lower.  I know people that take more that 25 grams daily, but I swear I do amazingly on 2-4 grams of good crushed leaf, 3-5 times a day. 

I took the oxy sometimes on the same day I used kratom. On those days I took less kratom 10 to 15 grams. I used a variety of strains green maeng da, red mangda, white maeng da, chocolate bentuangie and white hulu. I have been using kratom occasionally since December 17\. Maybe 2 or 3 times a week. I've only used plain leaf! And yes Itza I do know it's not an opiate but it affects the opiate receptors. Thanks for responding I feel better knowing you don't think I took it long enough to become a problem.

@'ansony': > I took the oxy sometimes on the same day I used kratom. On those days I took less kratom 10 to 15 grams. I used a variety of strains green maeng da, red mangda, white maeng da, chocolate bentuangie and white hulu. I have been using kratom occasionally since December 17\. Maybe 2 or 3 times a week. I've only used plain leaf! And yes Itza I do know it's not an opiate but it affects the opiate receptors. Thanks for responding I feel better knowing you don't think I took it long enough to become a problem. If I am reading this correctly, you were taking Oxy concomitantly with the kratom & seeing that it was for post-op pain the oxy is discontinued so now you are tapering down your kratom also. Is this about the size of it, ansony?  In my experience, it takes a short amount of time for prescription medications, such as oxy, to develop both a tolerance & that nasty "need" factor. Also, as far as "dinging" your opiate receptors, Oxy has a far more powerful "ding" than kratom ever will as in, it binds faster, stronger & longer to the opiate receptors which is why it is almost useless to take kratom along with oxy. The oxy binds quickly & strongly to most, if not all, of your opiate receptors allowing most of the kratom to just pass on thru unbound, due to a lack of opiate receptor sites left to bind to. Because of the fact that the oxy binds to these receptors far longer than kratom, the time span between oxy & kratom must be considerable. What I am trying to make clear is that much of the time that you were taking the 2 together, oxy & kratom, very little of the kratom was binding to & activating (dinging) your opiate receptors because the oxy was hogging all the opiate receptor sites. Even if you separated your oxy & your kratom by a few hours, chances are very good that the oxy was still hogging most of your opiate receptor sites so again, most of the kratom passed thru your system without binding to & "dinging" anything. So, during the 6 weeks, you have been using kratom extremely little of the kratom has been able to be utilized by your system. In other words, I would look for another explanation for your lack of sleep & anxiousness like maybe the oxy?

Yep, that's the point I was trying to articulate. Oxy can cause issues very quickly.

@'Bizaro22': > Yep, that's the point I was trying to articulate. Oxy can cause issues very quickly. Yeh, well, you know me, Biz … Word Salad for lunch anybody???  :P

Most days I took no oxy. and when I did it was only 5 or 10 mgs per day. I was allowed 30 mg a day. I only took both 5 mg of oxy and 10 mg or so of kratom on the same day about 3 or 4 times. I took way less oxy then most would have because I was using kratom. I have some oxy left and never got it refilled. I was afraid of the oxy really. The kratom definitely worked. Last oxy I took was 12 days ago. I will take no more. I went 2 days without kratom and slept maybe 3 1/2 to 4 hrs each night. Maybe I'm nervous about other things but yesterday I took some in the afternoon and early evening (a total of 15 gms.) and slept pretty good. Tonight I will take 5 gms and some kava and see how that works. Maybe it's smarter to taper!!! Thanks for giving me someone to communicate with!!! I do have a lot of work to do around the house but am unable to because of the recent surgery. So maybe that's it? Thanks again!!!

i don't know if i'm contradicting twist and bizarro but i would feel taking 15-25g of kratom for 6 weeks with oxy (sometimes) would cause mild discomfort.

Tapering is definitely the preferred method and an easier transition. Also, a lot of the discomfort can be mental. Not all, but it does play a role. When you know you're not taking anything and just waiting to feel any reaction, you will dwell on things you normally wouldn't. Keep you mind off of it and get some exercise. You should be back to new within a week.

@'Rob83': > i don't know if i'm contradicting twist and bizarro but i would feel taking 15-25g of kratom for 6 weeks with oxy (sometimes) would cause mild discomfort. Not contradictory, Rob, just slightly off on the details. He was apparently taking it intermittently, no set amount, not steadily & often concomitantly _with_ the oxy (same day, etc). Hence the confusion. This is just one of those threads that you have to read closely to get the details right. It's nice to see you, Rob. Actually, it's _always_ a pleasure when you &/or Biz show up at "my house", lol. Don't be strangers, either one of you, ok?

@'Bizaro22': > Tapering is definitely the preferred method and an easier transition. Also, a lot of the discomfort can be mental. Not all, but it does play a role. When you know you're not taking anything and just waiting to feel any reaction, you will dwell on things you normally wouldn't. Keep you mind off of it and get some exercise. You should be back to new within a week. Darn it, Biz, you always beat me to my own words so, _for once_, I am going to be kind to my fingers & say …  **… What he said ^^^**  :rolleyes: Please keep us up on how you're doing, ok, ansony?

@'itzatwist': > Not contradictory, Rob, just slightly off on the details. He was apparently taking it intermittently, no set amount, not steadily & often concomitantly _with_ the oxy (same day, etc). Hence the confusion. This is just one of those threads that you have to read closely to get the details right. > > It's nice to see you, Rob. Actually, it's _always_ a pleasure when you &/or Biz show up at "my house", lol. Don't be strangers, either one of you, ok? Lol. I plan to be around more. Been crazy past few months. Just haven’t had extra time to really browse nor respond. But it’s good to shoot the shit with biz and you.  Sure. The details need to be sifted with a fine comb. Intermittently maybe not I guess. But daily use of mitra and Oxus would def cause discomfort after 6 weeks. Biz is also right with the mind over matter thing as well.

@'Rob83': > Lol. I plan to be around more. Been crazy past few months. Just haven’t had extra time to really browse nor respond. But it’s good to shoot the shit with biz and you.  > > Sure. The details need to be sifted with a fine comb. Intermittently maybe not I guess. But daily use of mitra and Oxus would def cause discomfort after 6 weeks. **Biz is also right with the mind over matter thing as well.** Yeh, I think you, Biz & I know this sad fact only too well & the mind can be a horrible taskmaster especially when it has developed a ritual, any ritual that brings with it a reward. In this instance, the ritual is downing oxy or kratom & the reward is that both of them result in less pain. Once your mind has learned (habitualized) that ritual-reward pattern it becomes a hard habit to break. You know, like Pavlov's dogs. So, yes, mentally there can be a void that is left where the ritual-reward used to be. My point to ansony was centered entirely on the possibility of _physical_ withdrawal. While the mind may crave the habit, the body is not reacting physically to the absence of kratom. Dependence versus addiction. You are talking oranges (mental) & I am talking apples (physical) while Biz has them both covered in one of his famous fruit salads. So, yes Rob, I believe all three of us are absolutely correct & I should have made my point more clear. Thanks to both of you. _Now, please pass the fruit salad, Biz …  :P_

To the OP. Kratom has many benefits as we all know. And one of the most frequently used lines in our world is “well, you may have been on oxy or percocets, morphine, etc” as cliche as it is it’s the truth. Most people that utilize kratom are not using it just to use it. Sure, some for social (younger people) but most adults have been introduced to this plant for medical or dependency reasons. If you opt to take kratom and are worried about liver enzymes, god only know what the prescription would have done. We are talking about a leaf that is grown, picked, milled and consumed.

I'll toss your salad anytime Twist…... :P

Hi ansony, and a warm welcome to the forum!  :welcomewave: I am both a bit shocked and concerned after thoroughly reading through your posts, as I rarely come across posts where someone is taking such high amounts of kratom on a single day, let alone in combination with opiates. At the same time, I'm confused as to the amounts you've actually been consuming. Please help me out.  In your first post you state you have been taking 15 g-25 g daily:  "I've been taking 15 to 25 "gms" of kratom daily for post op. joint surgery.", and, "The last day I took kratom was Sunday. I took around 25 gms."  In an additional post you're stating you took 10 "mg" per day, so 10 milligrams instead of 10 grams?  :huh: "I only took both 5 mg of oxy and 10 mg or so of kratom on the same day about 3 or 4 times."  Had you indeed meant grams instead of milligrams, this might even mean you were taking between 30 grams and up to 50 grams per day, taking into account the 3-5 times daily.  Now, when reading on, the amounts change back to 5 "gms" or 10 "gms" (all along assuming you meant "g", the proper abbreviation for gram).  However it may be, Kratom is an excellent natural and safe alternative one can utilize to replace opiates. itzatwist's brilliant response, explaining in great detail why it may not be beneficial to use opiates concurrent with kratom, remains unmatched. I would add that exceeding a normal dose of kratom may indeed cause anxiety, rather than rid of it, but whatever the case may be, personally, if I took "only" 10-15 grams of kratom per day my body would reject it altogether by way of vomit.   Just the other day, actually, on April 29, a new member, Justin Harris, states:  "Kratom has gotten me off all opiates. Enough said."  To which "designerkratom" so excellently summoned it up in his response:  "Remember, a Kratom user chooses to stop taking opiates, tries Kratom, and figures out if it works for them."  Food for thought.  All my best to you on your surgery recovery! :) Smiles ~Funny

Good advice all around although I'd have to say that I know many people who take @ 25 grams of Kratom daily (not newbies tho). I don't recommend it, and I don't personally, but know quite a few who do. Just sayin….

@'Bizaro22': > Good advice all around although I'd have to say that I know many people who take @ 25 grams of Kratom daily (not newbies tho). I don't recommend it, and I don't personally, but know quite a few who do. Just sayin…. Yet again, I am left with this … **What he Said ^^^  :cool:** _By the way, your fruit salad is great, Biz …_**  :D**

I take anywhere between 18-22g per day. I wake up everyday at 3:45-4:00am and usually hit the rack by 9:00 pm so over a 17 hour period I’m right around 20g or so. I’d like to get it down but (3) 5g burns per day over 17 hours with some small booster burns isn’t a concern. And like biz I know MANY people that burn 20+g a day. It appears most do. When you hear someone say they burn (1) teaspoon. IME (1) Tspn level with medium grind is around 3-4g. Fine ground or flour consistency even more. Most say they burn (2-3) teaspoons 3X a day. Or twice a day. That’s over 20g per day

Funnygermangirl I did mean grams. I took kratom only twice a day many times only once. Usually a heaping teaspoon. I weighed a heaping teaspoon to be 10 - 12 grams. I'm tapering down to stop. I took 5 gms yesterday and 4 gms today. Only one time.

@'ansony': > Funnygermangirl I did mean grams. I took kratom only twice a day  many times only once. Usually a heaping teaspoon. I weighed a heaping teaspoon to be 10 - 12 grams. I'm tapering down to stop. I took 5 gms yesterday and 4 gms today.  Only one time. I think you may be confusing a teaspoon with a tablespoon, ansony. The most weight I can get on a teaspoon, even a big one, is 3 maybe 4 grams & that is heaping, _very_ heaping.  Care to take a photo of the spoon you are using?  That may shed some light on the confusion here …  ;)

I would think a heaping teaspoon isn't any more than 4-5 grams max. Did you actually weigh it? You might be doing less than you think. ETA: haha….you beat me this time Twist! **What she said ^^^^**

Twist, you and I favorite vendors type grind is roughly 3-3.5g for a teaspoon. Flour consistency will weigh more. Must be tablespoons our fellow member is talking about. That kind of makes my point a few posts back. Half seem to weigh out and half go by measuring spoons. Can’t really assume what your doing if not weighing. When people say “wow 15-25g a day is a lot” but they themselves burn 2-4 teaspoons a day or more. They are right with the 20g folks.