New User Questions

I'm not sure I'm posting in the right area…tech challenged...but I have a question. Ivery been taking kratom daily for a year and am amazed at how much I can get done. Dealing with chronic neck pain, major surgeries and kratom freed me from opioids. I love kratom! But lately I've had some emotional upheavals and started taking more than usual. I know I need to back off for awhile but am having trouble. I've been taking it more to keep from crying than for the pain. Feeling a bit like withdrawals when I stop. I know I need to stop and take a break but was wondering if anyone else has had problems like this. Would appreciate any feedback at all! Thank you all for listening.

Hey Susan. There’s been times over the years where I wasn’t emotionally stable and naturally I was looking to pin it on something. What I found is it was always linked to something else in my life. Kratom doesn’t seem to bring on emotional issues although there are physical.
Are you taking any prescriptions for anything? Taking any SSRI’s? Herbal SSRI’s like mucuna, htp, gaba, St. John’s wart, Kanna, phenibut??

I have a very important question that I am hoping someone can give me a factual response asap.
I have been seeing a pain management doctor and is not keen on the idea of me using Kratom however I cannot disagree with him more. I have argued my case however to no avail.
I know I will be getting a urine test with in a week and I know the medical urinalysis test they give is one of the most comprehensive there is and he has stated Kratom will show up. I need to know long will it stay in my system. I know there are factors in determining that but I would appreciate if anyone can give me the most accurate answer. Thank you for your help.

@'Viss Noel':

I have a very important question that I am hoping someone can give me a factual response asap.
I have been seeing a pain management doctor and is not keen on the idea of me using Kratom however I cannot disagree with him more. I have argued my case however to no avail.
I know I will be getting a urine test with in a week and I know the medical urinalysis test they give is one of the most comprehensive there is and he has stated Kratom will show up. I need to know long will it stay in my system. I know there are factors in determining that but I would appreciate if anyone can give me the most accurate answer. Thank you for your help.

You can now purchase a 10$ strip test for mitra in some places(not verified by me) according to some members. Said members have reported up to one week of positive results after cessation of mitra. I've seen no mention of longer duration positives. Hope this helps you…

If it's legal in your state, then I'd tell him to f@ck off. Ok, maybe that's not the best idea, but how can they kick you out of PM if it's legal??

@'Viss Noel':

I have a very important question that I am hoping someone can give me a factual response asap.
I have been seeing a pain management doctor and is not keen on the idea of me using Kratom however I cannot disagree with him more. I have argued my case however to no avail.
I know I will be getting a urine test with in a week and I know the medical urinalysis test they give is one of the most comprehensive there is and he has stated Kratom will show up. I need to know long will it stay in my system. I know there are factors in determining that but I would appreciate if anyone can give me the most accurate answer. Thank you for your help.

@'TheTide':

You can now purchase a 10$ strip test for mitra in some places(not verified by me) according to some members. Said members have reported up to one week of positive results after cessation of mitra. I've seen no mention of longer duration positives. Hope this helps you…

I couldn't have said it better, Tide.

Several things you can do that might help the Mitra clear your system & please note that I'm saying might; Drink plenty of fluids & try to be as active as is possible for you during the week prior to the UDS.

Please, be so kind as to let us know how this works out for you & I truly wish you a good outcome, Viss.

@'Bizaro22':

If it's legal in your state, then I'd tell him to f@ck off. Ok, maybe that's not the best idea, but how can they kick you out of PM if it's legal??

Many PM docs are, unfortunately, doing this, Biz, & it has nothing to do with the legality of Mitra or any other substance for that matter. It's often one of the terms of the agreement between the patient & the PM Doc. Upon entering Pain Management these terms are at the discretion of & dictated by the PM Doc.

Think of it like this; Cannabis is often on pre-employment UDS as well as random UDS for existing employees even in states where cannabis is legal. When the person taking the UDS comes up positive for cannabis the company administering the UDS may still choose to terminate employment or not offer employment (for pre-employment UDS) & this is completely within their legal rights to do so.

And no, it is not fair, it just is  :(

Yea, I know Twist. I was just replying on how it "should" be…..not how I know it actually is. Life is not fair, that I learned a long time ago.

@'Bizaro22':

Yea, I know Twist. I was just replying on how it "should" be…..not how I know it actually is. Life is not fair, that I learned a long time ago.

I don't know, Biz, it feels like things have been even more suck than usual. I mean it's bad enough that life not fair. Lately, it seems to have moved down to a whole new level of "not fair". You know, that totally screwed level of "not fair"  :s

@'Rob83':

Hey Susan. There’s been times over the years where I wasn’t emotionally stable and naturally I was looking to pin it on something. What I found is it was always linked to something else in my life. Kratom doesn’t seem to bring on emotional issues although there are physical.
Are you taking any prescriptions for anything? Taking any SSRI’s? Herbal SSRI’s like mucuna, htp, gaba, St. John’s wart, Kanna, phenibut??

I decided to allow psychiatry to try & help me again and am so tired of being a pharmaceutical guinea pig. Paxil just covers my life with a blanket. Dr answer is to add another drug & it goes on. Really need someone well versed in natural medicine that won't bankrupt me. Kratom works but wish I had some guidance. Hopefully I'll find it here. So mad the FDA, DEA & God knows who else will do anything possible to make sure we can't get what we need! Gonna try GABA supplements for a bit and see if that helps. Sometimes I feel like I have a damn good reason to be depressed when I look at the world. Maybe I'm trying to fix something that shouldn't be fixed. I can get suicidal as well and really don't want to give up like that.

@'Susan Girten':

I decided to allow psychiatry to try & help me again and am so tired of being a pharmaceutical guinea pig. Paxil just covers my life with a blanket. Dr answer is to add another drug & it goes on. Really need someone well versed in natural medicine that won't bankrupt me. Kratom works but wish I had some guidance. Hopefully I'll find it here. So mad the FDA, DEA & God knows who else will do anything possible to make sure we can't get what we need! Gonna try GABA supplements for a bit and see if that helps. Sometimes I feel like I have a damn good reason to be depressed when I look at the world. Maybe I'm trying to fix something that shouldn't be fixed. I can get suicidal as well and really don't want to give up like that.

Susan, will you please take a minute & tell me exactly how you are feeling both physically & mentally?

For most of my life (beginning at age 11) I have been misdiagnosed with major depressive disorder/severe anxiety disorder so have been put thru almost every antidepressant in the book along with acquiring a terrible physical addiction to Xanax in large dose (10mg/day). With the major depressive/severe anxiety disorders combined with my PTSD (which was unrecognized as a condition until 1980), one p-doc even diagnosed me with multiple personality disorder  :D  _At least they got the severe anxiety disorder part right _:lol:

As for pain, not to worry, I do have experience there too, starting with spinal fusion surgery for a broken back. My life has been, well, an interesting ride to say the least.

While I am not a physician I can certainly share with you anything in my personal experience that may help you maneuver your particular situation, ok?

Susan, your gonna be ok. There are good people here that only want to help. If you have hard questions, feel free to pm me. I plan to make time to help folks out around here anyway I can. I have background in exercise physiology and I spent decades studying the bodies metabolism and managing pain. I understand that your being tested for Mitri?

I have never heard of anything like that before. Good luck with your situation.

More and more labs can now test for Kratom. It's expensive, but definitely out there now.

@'itzatwist':

Susan, will you please take a minute & tell me exactly how you are feeling both physically & mentally?

For most of my life (beginning at age 11) I have been misdiagnosed with major depressive disorder/severe anxiety disorder so have been put thru almost every antidepressant in the book along with acquiring a terrible physical addiction to Xanax in large dose (10mg/day). With the major depressive/severe anxiety disorders combined with my PTSD (which was unrecognized as a condition until 1980), one p-doc even diagnosed me with multiple personality disorder  :D  _At least they got the severe anxiety disorder part right _:lol:

As for pain, not to worry, I do have experience there too, starting with spinal fusion surgery for a broken back. My life has been, well, an interesting ride to say the least.

While I am not a physician I can certainly share with you anything in my personal experience that may help you maneuver your particular situation, ok?

hi itza! Thanks for your response and just for being interested! I have been misdiagnosed over the years as well. Last diagnosis was major depressive disorder…tried suicide 2x. The neck pain and surgeries came in my 40's and lost my career because of it. I know that caused me to go downhill mentally very quickly. When neck surgery became imminent I was put on oxy..which at the time I'd never heard of..and was told it was non-addictive, a wonderful solution for pain so I could keep working. Well we all know how that can turn out! I went thru treatment and now I stay away from any opiates unless post surgery. Anyway I'm being bounced around on antidepressants and am beginning to think no one knows what they're doing and losing hope again. Kratom helps me emotionally lately and am scared cuz I don't want to end up in another addiction spiral! Trying to find an integrative Dr that could help me using plants and diet changes. So hard to get help and getting costly since i don't want to use the corporate healthcare system anymore if possible. Just confused and hurting...Kratom totally helps me get things done!!!

@'Rob83':

Hey Susan. There’s been times over the years where I wasn’t emotionally stable and naturally I was looking to pin it on something. What I found is it was always linked to something else in my life. Kratom doesn’t seem to bring on emotional issues although there are physical.
Are you taking any prescriptions for anything? Taking any SSRI’s? Herbal SSRI’s like mucuna, htp, gaba, St. John’s wart, Kanna, phenibut??

Hi Rob! I am taking paxil right now but its doing nothing except pulling a veil over my feelings…good and bad. I want to try GABA supplement I researched but it's scary weaning myself off paxil when i know i could get suicidal. Got great friends that I stay in touch with and they will notice if I'm getting squirrely. There are circumstances that are affecting my emotions and I beat myself up that I should be able to handle things better. That isn't a good idea either!! I'm always dealing with addiction fears in my head, I am a member of AA and sometimes I get more paranoid than i need to be. Kratom is the greatest thing for my physical pain but I'm wondering if it's messing with me emotionally. More meditation is helping me as well. As far as phenibut and kanna; are these effective in taking a break from Kratom?

@'Susan Girten':

hi itza! Thanks for your response and just for being interested! I have been misdiagnosed over the years as well. Last diagnosis was major depressive disorder…tried suicide 2x. The neck pain and surgeries came in my 40's and lost my career because of it. I know that caused me to go downhill mentally very quickly. When neck surgery became imminent I was put on oxy..which at the time I'd never heard of..and was told it was non-addictive, a wonderful solution for pain so I could keep working. Well we all know how that can turn out! I went thru treatment and now I stay away from any opiates unless post surgery. Anyway I'm being bounced around on antidepressants and am beginning to think no one knows what they're doing and losing hope again. Kratom helps me emotionally lately and am scared cuz I don't want to end up in another addiction spiral! Trying to find an integrative Dr that could help me using plants and diet changes. So hard to get help and getting costly since i don't want to use the corporate healthcare system anymore if possible. Just confused and hurting...Kratom totally helps me get things done!!!

Susan, I know your story very well because altho the precise details may be different it is very similar to my own.

So, what I am gathering is that you do very well when using kratom but you are afraid of addiction, am I right? If so, consider this; If/when taking antidepressants for any length of time that becomes an addiction in that when you stop taking them you will suffer varying degrees of withdrawal. Some of the newer ER (extended release) SNRI's are extremely difficult because the ER component makes tapering impossible, you cannot cut down the pill due to the matrix. For me, I was faced with two options: Use kratom, which is working far better than any antidepressant I have ever taken AND if/when I ever do decide to stop taking it I can taper down easily, I know this because I have quit before or; Continue taking antidepressants & Xanax that were only turning me numb & emotionally flat knowing that if I did decide to quit them (again) there would be hell to pay as both benzo's & antidepressants are highly addicting & the w/d's are horrifying & last for a very long time (over a year for the benzos).

As I said, I have quit kratom & antidepressants & Xanax (& opiates multiple times).

I really can't say for certain that I actually suffered any form of w/d when I stopped taking the kratom & here is why; When I discovered kratom in the first place I had broken my back & it was taking the docs a long time to diagnose (long story for another time). I did not want to get hooked on the oxy & fentanyl that were being prescribed as I do have a past with opiates. Anyhow, to shorten this up, kratom very successfully helped me to manage my pain prior to & after my highly successful lumbar fusion. As I recovered from surgery I needed less & less pain management so I just naturally took less & less kratom until one day I didn't need it at all. I never felt any form of discomfort because I forgot to read the rules, you know, the rules that say that quitting kratom is supposed to cause withdrawals  :rolleyes:  In hindsight, I can see that I just naturally tapered down the kratom.

As for the antidepressants; At the end of my antidepressants career I was taking Pristiq, one of those ER SNRI's & the w/d's were a horror show. My pdoc tried switching me to some other antidepressants like Paxil, Prozac & Celexa (all of which I had taken in the past) to allow me the ability to taper but those just added to the mental mess I was already experiencing. You know the drill; brain zaps, mild visual hallucinations, DP/DR, insomnia … mine became so bad that I was throwing up every 15 minutes for 3 days to the point of having to go to ER for severe dehydration & something to stop the heaving. They went thru every antiemetic they had & finally after the 7th IV antiemetic (there were 2 oral meds prior to moving to IV) my heaving slowed down. It did not stop, it only slowed down. They ended up keeping me overnight to monitor me because my dehydration was so severe & they had not been able to successfully stop the heaving. Now, keep in mind, I have been thru opiate w/d more than once (my past with opiates) so trust me when I say, this experience far exceeded anything I have ever been thru, ever!

Now enter Xanax; I am certain you have heard all of the horror stories so all I will say is, They Are ALL True!!!

Over a year after finally quitting the Xanax I was still experiencing the severe windows & waves of benzo PAWS along with crippling anxiety & extreme insomnia. This is when I finally remembered that while I was using kratom for pain I had read that some had experienced great success with kratom for both anxiety & w/d so, I came back to the kratom community & I have my life back, a life I have not had for a very very long time.

So, reading thru all of my experiences which regimen do you see me choosing? Please feel free to ask me anything, anything at all, ok Susan?

Susan, Kratom allows me to choose which drugs, when and how often. Medication that has been prescribed is important base. I am a firm believer that any and all medication that interacts with serotonin on any level, always be taken as prescribed. If one is smart about how they use Kratom, Pain Medication can be greatly reduced. Opiate blockers can be greatly reduced as well. Kratom can be systematically reduced and then stopped. The pain will return. You won't be addicted to anything, just in pain. Pain is typically short lived but some pain is not. Some pain will live with folks until the day they die.

@'designerkratom':

Susan, Kratom allows me to choose which drugs, when and how often.  Medication that has been prescribed is important base.  I am a firm believer that any and all medication that interacts with serotonin on any level, always be taken as prescribed. If one is smart about how they use Kratom,  Pain Medication can be greatly reduced. Opiate blockers can be greatly reduced as well.  Kratom can be systematically reduced and then stopped.  The pain will return.  You won't be addicted to anything, just in pain.  Pain is typically short lived but some pain is not.  Some pain will live with folks until the day they die.

Well said, DK  :shy:

@'itzatwist':

Well said, DK  :shy:

I agree, very well put and I am so grateful for your reply.

@'designerkratom':

Susan, your gonna be ok.  There are good people here that only want to help.  If you have hard questions, feel free to pm me. I plan to make time to help folks out around here anyway I can. I have background in exercise physiology and I spent decades studying the bodies metabolism and managing pain.  I understand that your being tested for Mitri?

I have never heard of anything like that before.   Good luck with your situation.

Hi! I am not being tested, that was someone else. I am afraid of addiction mainly because of bs put out by DEA & FDA. I'm still not sure what antidepressants I need because of being misdiagnosed often. A lot of it is my psych retired & haven't found a good Dr yet…oh yeah, that will take my insurance too. Healthcare is a nightmare anymore. Trust has become a major issue for me

@'Susan Girten':

hi itza! Thanks for your response and just for being interested! I have been misdiagnosed over the years as well. Last diagnosis was major depressive disorder…tried suicide 2x. The neck pain and surgeries came in my 40's and lost my career because of it. I know that caused me to go downhill mentally very quickly. When neck surgery became imminent I was put on oxy..which at the time I'd never heard of..and was told it was non-addictive, a wonderful solution for pain so I could keep working. Well we all know how that can turn out! I went thru treatment and now I stay away from any opiates unless post surgery. Anyway I'm being bounced around on antidepressants and am beginning to think no one knows what they're doing and losing hope again. Kratom helps me emotionally lately and am scared cuz I don't want to end up in another addiction spiral! Trying to find an integrative Dr that could help me using plants and diet changes. So hard to get help and getting costly since i don't want to use the corporate healthcare system anymore if possible. Just confused and hurting...Kratom totally helps me get things done!!!

Being bounced around on antidepressants, alone is terribly hard to take mentally & I have no reason to believe that anybody really does know what they are doing when prescribing them. It appears that docs just keep throwing different ones at you till one of them "sticks".

Having been thru treatment myself, as well as on-again-off-again AA, I understand your fears of addiction. Constantly having to examine your motives & questioning your judgment, that's not an easy thing to live with. All that second-guessing! Let me just say this; you DO deserve to be happy, you DO deserve to feel good, Susan.

@'Susan Girten':

Hi Rob! I am taking paxil right now but its doing nothing except pulling a veil over my feelings…good and bad. I want to try GABA supplement I researched but it's scary weaning myself off paxil when i know i could get suicidal. Got great friends that I stay in touch with and they will notice if I'm getting squirrely. There are circumstances that are affecting my emotions and I beat myself up that I should be able to handle things better. That isn't a good idea either!! I'm always dealing with addiction fears in my head, I am a member of AA and sometimes I get more paranoid than i need to be. Kratom is the greatest thing for my physical pain but I'm wondering if it's messing with me emotionally. More meditation is helping me as well. As far as phenibut and kanna; are these effective in taking a break from Kratom?

Susan, many people have tried to use phenibut responsibly but surprisingly quickly find themselves in way over their heads. With your addiction concerns, I will advise extreme caution, ok? I tried it & very quickly decided against using it further because of my own addiction concerns,

@'Susan Girten':

Hi! I am not being tested, that was someone else. I am afraid of addiction mainly because of bs put out by DEA & FDA. I'm still not sure what antidepressants I need because of being misdiagnosed often. A lot of it is my psych retired & haven't found a good Dr yet…oh yeah, that will take my insurance too. Healthcare is a nightmare anymore. Trust has become a major issue for me

Looking for a good doc is difficult at best, looking for a good pdoc (psychiatrist) is a thousand times more difficult. Also yes, healthcare is a total mess & has been for awhile.

As DK has already said, please feel free to PM any of us if you wish, ok? We do care & we will support you in any way that we can, ok? I truly wish you well.

For Susan, though it's been months, I have found the nutritional supplements 5 hydroxytryptophan (5HTP) to be really good antidepressant. It is somehow converting to serotonin, and I knew it was doing something because  would take before bed (sometimes can make you sleepy as tryptophan does) and get the "movie dreams" like I used to on Prozac years ago. I know one other person who told me it was the ONLY thing that ever helped his depression. You get it any pharmacy vitamin section, take empty stomach, start with maybe 100 mg and see what happens. It seemed to work within days unlike ssris. Maybe it would even help taper off ssris.

I have also tried GABA, in small doses, which helped anxiety. You don't necessarily need to take it daily, and it can calm stress and panic within minutes of taken on an empty stomach. Step up from 500 mg until you feel better. But I have known a couple people who said it made them feel weird…one guy said he felt like it was making him MORE anxious.

Hope you are doing well.

@Rob83
Hi Rob! Yes I take vraylar, very minimal amount, but need something for emotional overload. Yeah there is always something else going on in my life. I think I'm just getting scared because of all the BS from DEA and FDA. Kratom really helps me get thru the day without pain and I am extremely grateful for that!

@Lisbeth-Bird
Thank you Lisbeth! I have tried 5 HTP but didn't work on me. I'll try the GABA. Kratom helps my anxiety as well. Hope you're doing good too!