Hi, I am suffering from spastic bronchitis and have received a cortisone spray from the doctor. Is it possible to combine cortisone with kratom? Karl

@'Karl Strudel': > Hi, > > I am suffering from spastic bronchitis and have received a cortisone spray from the doctor. Is it possible to combine cortisone with kratom? > > Karl Hi Karl, Welcome to the forum.  I'm going out on a limb to say NO you really should not combine Mitragyna leaf with cortisone.  The reason is because I am sure you have checked the literature and with your doctor and did not get a good answer.  The problem is we just don't know what kind of interactions there might be.  Until there is more research there really is no safe way to answer with a 'Yes, go ahead and combine them".  Nor, to my knowledge, is there a reason to think it would be a good treatment for your affliction. I had a workmate who had bronchial spasms and I know how devestating it can be.  I remember she had some nose drops called Bronvil that she said was effective.  I think it needs a prescription. Best wishes

cortisone is a steroid, it's used to relieve inflamed tissue.  M.S. also has the capacity to assist in this mechanism.   Combining them may have a positively excellent effect.  I haven't seen any contraindications publicized for Kratom.  _ETA: Please read the rules._

@'Karl Strudel': > Hi, > > I am suffering from spastic bronchitis and have received a cortisone spray from the doctor. Is it possible to combine cortisone with kratom? > > Karl Ok, Karl, here is what I can say. I have had several rounds of Medrol packs as well as having used the cortisone spray & have never suffered side-effects &/or interaction between cortisone & kratom. I have also read many personal posts & comments from people who have used them concomitantly yet claim to have suffered no side-effects or interaction. At the same time, I have _never_, not even once, read any personal testimony that warns against side effects &/or interaction when combining cortisone with kratom use.  Please keep in mind that, while the anecdotal evidence overwhelmingly points to no interaction between the two, this is _purely_ anecdotal. However, another thing to consider is that much of the information we have regarding kratom is based on anecdotal evidence & personal testimony. It always comes down to choices, Karl. Would you like me to see if I can track down anything more solid than anecdotal? I kind of doubt it is "out there" but I will most certainly give it my best to track down, just let me know, ok?

Karl nice to see you back! Sorry your having some problems. I doubt that I can add more to the thread that others have not already stated. I am usually more worried about the side effects of the prescriptions. All i have seen seems to be that kratom plays well with steroids working to reduce inflammation as well. I have seen people mention that red strains also helped with the anxiety and irritation that can sometimes come with steroids. How is your liver doing…how are things going in general?

@'RoninAdvocacy': > Karl nice to see you back! Sorry your having some problems. I doubt that I can add more to the thread that others have not already stated. I am usually more worried about the side effects of the prescriptions. All i have seen seems to be that kratom plays well with steroids working to reduce inflammation as well. I have seen people mention that red strains also helped with the anxiety and irritation that can sometimes come with steroids. How is your liver doing…how are things going in general? Hi Ronin, thx I am well now. My GGT is ok after  taking no Kratom for 2 weeks. At the moment I am not sure how to proceed, because I want to take at least two times a week Kratom. I'm afraid that there are people whose liver is sensitive to kratom. Karl

@'Karl Strudel': > Hi Ronin, > thx I am well now. My GGT is ok after  taking no Kratom for 2 weeks. At the moment I am not sure how to proceed, because I want to take at least two times a week Kratom. > I'm afraid that there are people whose liver is sensitive to kratom. > > Karl According to all the literature that I have read there has not been anything conclusive that states that kratom hurts the liver nor have I read of liver sensitivity specifically to kratom. In fact, I've seen many people reporting their liver enzyme levels have improved. As for me, personally, my liver enzymes were slightly elevated prior to using kratom daily. Now they have dropped to within normal limits. There are, however, many prescription medications as well as over-the-counter medications that are known to affect the liver enzymes. Perhaps you can provide a little more information regarding any medical therapies you may be undergoing? Also, have you considered the use of NAC (N-acetyl Cysteine)? NAC has been shown to support liver function. NAC artificially raises glutathione levels in the body by means of supplemented additional glutathione, correct methylation function is the bodies natural producer of glutathione. Now a healthy person without impaired methylation will have no issue producing this antioxidant, however many people with chronic illness acquire methylation issues secondary because of illness until the system settles, or some others are born with certain genetic mutations that put them at risk for methylation issues unless supplemented. Please continue to keep us appraised of your health situation, Karl.

Hi, see the following article. https://livertox.nih.gov/Kratom.htm Greetings Karl

@'Karl Strudel': > Hi, > see the following article. > > https://livertox.nih.gov/Kratom.htm > > Greetings Karl Thank You, Karl. I have seen this article & here's what I think about it & why: Considering this article has several glaring instances of false information such as this … > _"Kratom is a banned substance and considered an agent of abuse, for which reason it is usually not listed or discussed in review articles on HDS related liver injury." _ Which when combined with vague statements such as this … > _**"Mechanism of Injury** The cause of liver injury due to kratom is unknown.  It is often used with other agents, including drugs of abuse, and its causative relationship to liver injury in published cases is not always clear."_ I have sincere misgivings as to the accuracy of the entire article. Also, as you can clearly see upon reading it in its entirety it is not conclusive especially given the fact that the Mechanism of Injury is, in their own words "unknown". What I can say for certain is that the article is NOT conclusive, has no real facts, no solid information, no case studies, no methodologies, nothing of substance & has instead utilized hyperbole, false information & broadly vague statements to put forth what is an unsupported hypothesis. In this case, it all comes down to choice, _your_ choice, Karl. Is this; hypothesis supported by hyperbole, false information & vague statements; the type of misinformation you want to base your health decisions on? Again, Thank You. I wish you all the best & please do take care with your health decisions. I truly applaud you for trying to do your due diligence.

thx Itzatwist you are very helpful Karl

Atta girl twist- spot the lies, THEN understand the conjecture . Good luck with what ever you choose Carl. None of this is written in stone now.

I too have had liver and kidney function monitored during the use of Kratom daily. There were some indications of elevation, but nothing to be concerned about according to my Dr. I have since reduced my intake to no more than 12 grams per day. My enzymes seemed to move as my intake moved. It is my thought that some people would be more affected by Kratom intake than others. Until we accept M.S. as a helpful tool to be used as such, we may never have solid data and be forced to resort to patient testimony.

@'designerkratom': > I too have had liver and kidney function monitored during the use of Kratom daily.  There were some indications of elevation, but nothing to be concerned about according to my Dr.  I have since reduced my intake to no more than 12 grams per day.  My enzymes seemed to move as my intake moved.  It is my thought that some people would be more affected by Kratom intake than others.  **Until we accept M.S. as a helpful tool** to be used as such, we may never have solid data and be forced to resort to patient testimony. M.S.? If that is supposed to stand for Medical Science you do realize that is exactly what we, at the AKA have been doing, right? If so then please follow this link to the AKA Website: [https://www.americankratom.org](https://www.americankratom.org) Once you are there you will see a number of Tabs running along the top. The tabs you will want to be sure to investigate are; "Media" & "Science & Facts". We have begun to accumulate some very good information that has been accomplished by leading professionals & research scientists, professionals, who are at the top of their field. I truly believe that you will be surprised by the scope & the depth of the information along with the scientific research that has been accomplished since the ban-scare in 2016.  So, please, check out the information that is available on our website, ok?

@'designerkratom': > I too have had liver and kidney function monitored during the use of Kratom daily.  There were some indications of elevation, but nothing to be concerned about according to my Dr.  I have since reduced my intake to no more than 12 grams per day.  My enzymes seemed to move as my intake moved.  It is my thought that some people would be more affected by Kratom intake than others.  Until we accept M.S. as a helpful tool to be used as such, we may never have solid data and be forced to resort to patient testimony. thx designerkratom - that is what I am supposing. But nevertheless Kratom is great and I want miss it. Karl

@'designerkratom': > I too have had liver and kidney function monitored during the use of Kratom daily.  There were some indications of elevation, but nothing to be concerned about according to my Dr.  I have since reduced my intake to no more than 12 grams per day.  My enzymes seemed to move as my intake moved.  It is my thought that some people would be more affected by Kratom intake than others.  Until we accept M.S. as a helpful tool to be used as such, we may never have solid data and be forced to resort to patient testimony. What condition was your physician monitoring that required such frequent liver function testing, DK? Physicians don't typically order such frequent liver enzyme panels without a very good reason. This sentence confuses me for two very good reasons; > _There were some indications of elevation, but nothing to be concerned about according to my Dr._ The first part, "There were **some indications** of elevation" doesn't make sense simply because your liver enzymes are elevated or they are not elevated.  Then you go on to say, "…but **nothing to be concerned about** according to my Dr." So, why was he monitoring your liver enzymes so closely if there was nothing to be concerned about?  I hope you can understand my confusion here, DK.  So, if I am reading your post correctly, you had a Liver Function Panel run each time you changed the amount of kratom you ingested. Is this the, **"why"** I am looking for? Was this close monitoring of your liver function being done _specifically_ to monitor the effects of kratom-use on your liver? If so, I would be very interested in seeing those test results as this would be excellent information to have. Just so you know, I am an MT (Medical Technologist) by profession & my specialty is in Blood Chemistries, so I can assure you that I am able to read & understand Liver Function Panel results. As an MT in hospital labs as well as clinical labs I have, in all honesty, never seen a physician monitor liver function this frequently without a very good reason. These panels are not cheap so without good cause health insurances will not cover the expense of frequent testing. So I am to assume you were paying for these panels out-of-pocket? I look forward to hearing back from you on this, DK as I am _fascinated_ by the prospect of being able to view, thru actual test results, liver functionality in conjunction with the amount of kratom ingested. This is valuable information so excuse me if I am just a little enthusiastic.

Hello designerkratom, How are you. Thank you for your interest. I have been taking kratom since the beginning of January. Only 2 teaspoons 3 times a week. It's great for me. At the end of February I had a check-up, with the GGT 160 instead of a maximum of 55 and the leucocytes 10150 instead of a maximum of 10000\. I dol not take any medication except Thyrex for Hashimoto. Then I did not take kratom for 3 weeks and my lab values were fine again. I asked 7 doctors in Vienna for advice and they always said that they do not know Kratom. I am unsure because I do not know how to proceed. Can I take kratom again? Do you have any advice for me? Karl * * * thank you itzatwist too. Karl

@'Karl Strudel': > Hello designerkratom, > > How are you. Thank you for your interest. > > I have been taking kratom since the beginning of January. Only 2 teaspoons 3 times a week. It's great for me. At the end of February I had a check-up, with the GGT 160 instead of a maximum of 55 and the leucocytes 10150 instead of a maximum of 10000\. I dol not take any medication except Thyrex for Hashimoto. Then I did not take kratom for 3 weeks and my lab values were fine again. I asked 7 doctors in Vienna for advice and they always said that they do not know Kratom. I am unsure because I do not know how to proceed. Can I take kratom again? Do you have any advice for me? > > Karl > > * * * > > thank you itzatwist too. > > Karl Karl, may I ask you, what were your test results upon the repeat test after you received the GGT of 160? When a liver function test varies that greatly (from normal to 160) the Liver Function Panel is repeated to rule out lab &/or clerical error. Also, what did your physicians have to say about this? Thank You for letting us know that you are dealing with Hashimoto's because knowing that makes your situation far more clear. I am going in search of several articles that I know I have stashed somewhere, to explain why I just said that. For now, you do know that with Hashimoto’s the liver & thyroid Affect each other in many areas, right? Thyroid hormone affects detoxification pathways in the liver & affects insulin growth factor & cytochrome P450 enzymes which metabolize lots of drugs & environmental toxins. When this slows you can have toxins build up. Very high levels of thyroid hormone (T3) can raise bilirubin levels and can actually be toxic to the liver because it damages mitochondria. The following are a few ways you can help your liver, & indirectly, your thyroid. > _**Ginger:** this common food contains chemicals that have been shown to increase bile secretion and to reduce cholesterol levels by up regulating an enzyme responsible for bile acid production (cholesterol-7-alpha-hydorxylase)._ > _**Dandelion:** The root of this common weed promotes the production of bile and its delivery to the gall bladder. It causes the gall bladder to contract and release bile._ > > _**Milk Thistle:** This herb increases the solubility of bile and has been shown to significantly lower cholesterol concentrations in the gall bladder. It has potent anti-oxidant activity which supports detoxification and it prevents depletion of glutathione in the liver, which is often depleted in people with Hashimoto’s.
> 
> It also has anti-inflammatory properties and it promotes protein synthesis to replace damaged liver cells._ > > _**Panax ginseng:** This herb has been shown in several studies to have numerous positive impacts on liver function. It has been shown to reverse fatty liver in animals and can be really helpful in cleaning toxins out of the liver. It also has really important benefits for the immune system like promoting Kupffer cells (specialized immune cells located in the liver) and can be beneficial in balancing the immune system by increasing key proteins like IL-8._ As for your leukocytes test result, that is not surprising given the fact that you are dealing with effects of Hashimoto's on your body. You see, our bodies adjust our WBC levels up in response to any number of stimuli from fighting off a cold to an infected tooth to a physical stressor such as the effects of Hashimoto's. Make sense? Please keep in mind that none of us here, including myself & DK, are physicians, you should never lose sight of that, Karl. Please do not mistake opinion for anything more than it is, ok? _I am going in search of those articles … wish me well, lol!_

Hi Itzatwist, thx for all. My GGT was 160, leucotytes 10150, on February 20\. I took 1 teaspoon Kratom 12 hours befote the test. Then I didnt take Kratom until March 8. On that day my GGT was 55, my leutocytes 7500. Karl

@'Karl Strudel': > Hi Itzatwist, > > thx for all. My GGT was 160, leucotytes 10150, on February 20\. I took 1 teaspoon Kratom 12 hours befote the test. > > Then I didnt take Kratom until March 8. > > On that day my GGT was 55, my leutocytes 7500. > > Karl Karl, I want to assure you that I have not forgotten you & your predicament. I am searching for members of our community, the kratom community, who also suffer from Hashimoto's. I believe that the best way to help you is to introduce you to others who also have to deal with Hashimoto's. I can lay out all of the reasons that I don't believe that kratom is, in any way, responsible for your temporary spike in GGT levels but I think my point would get lost in all of the in-depth studies & research that I have read on the subject of the effects of kratom on liver function. This is especially true considering that you are dealing with a condition, Hashimoto's, that by itself can have profound effects on liver function. No, I believe that you would benefit far more from being to conversate with someone or someones who are dealing with the same condition as you. Please don't lose hope, ok?

i do know milk thistle is a great liver detoxifier. also in regards to cortisone and kratom. not sure if anabolic steroids and cortisone are in the same arena with these things but i know a few guys that take anabolic steroids and kratom. they are and will be life long steroid users as they chose to be on for life. so they get lab work every 2 months or so like most professional bodybuilders and lab work comes back ok. also, cordyceps mushrooms are know to be a great detox amongst many other benefits are anyone getting these labs alcohol drinkers? recovering addicts from narcotics? previous unknown or known health conditions? over weight/obese? alot of people that voice concern with these sort of things sometimes lead unhealthy lives. fast food, processed boxed food, soda, booze, sugar, etc. not accusing you or coming at you. just curious to all the moving parts. most of the time, peoples general health is at risk from poor diet and lifestyle also, i had a full panel of blood work done in november of 2017\. i have been using anywhere from 15-22grams of kratom per day for the better part of 4 years before this lab work. everything came back normal. i do take care of myself though. probably extreme by most peoples standards but i am vegan, i won't touch soda or sugar drinks if you paid me. no processed foods. everything is whole food. only thing i drink is water. lemon water. or chlorophyll water (just started this) idk, maybe i'm lucky. maybe time will tell. i know my story could be what it is or still snorting (4) oxy 80s a day. can't imagine the 10 year oxy addiction did my liver any favors. (8) years clean though

Karl, I would like you to revisit your "Kratom & Liver" thread from March as there are a lot of excellent comments on this same subject … [**http://theakaforum.com/Thread?Kratom-General-Information/Kratom-Questions/Kratom-and-liver**](http://theakaforum.com/Thread?Kratom-General-Information/Kratom-Questions/Kratom-and-liver)

Servus Karl :) wir hatten Besuch aus Deutschland und ich war dadurch eine Weile lang ziemlich vereinnahmt (kaum Zeit für die AKA), aber nun kehrt wieder etwas Ruhe ein.  Nach dem Lesen von deinem Post wollte ich mal schauen, wie es dir derweil geht. Ich hoffe, alles im grünen Bereich?  Wegen deiner Lebersorgen denke ich, es wäre natürlich ideal, wenn du mit weiteren Hashimoto Patienten in Kontakt treten könntest, die, ebenso wie du, ebenfalls anderweitig von Kratom profitieren, aber wie findet man die? Einige aus dem Forum schauen sich schon um und ich hoffe, dass dabei was  rauskommt.  Nebenbei erwähnt, ich gestalte inzwischen Plakatwände (Real Voices of Kratom) … ich weiss nicht, ob du vielleicht schon welche davon gesehen hast? Jedenfalls, es handelt sich um wahrheitsgetreue Aussagen von Kratomnutzern, mit realem Namen unterschrieben (oft auch mit Foto), auf grünen, virtuellen Plakatwänden abgebildet.  Von diesem Projekt versprechen wir uns, als Patienten wahrgenommen zu werden, echte Menschen mit echten Krankheiten, denen Kratom hilft. Dazu haben wir eine Webseite gegründet: http://realvoicesofkratom.org ... wenn du mal Lust hast und vorbeischauen magst.  Machs gut derweil und a Trumm Busserl!  ;) ~ Funny

@'FunnyGermanGirl': > Servus Karl :) > > wir hatten Besuch aus Deutschland und ich war dadurch eine Weile lang ziemlich vereinnahmt (kaum Zeit für die AKA), aber nun kehrt wieder etwas Ruhe ein.  > Nach dem Lesen von deinem Post wollte ich mal schauen, wie es dir derweil geht. Ich hoffe, alles im grünen Bereich?  > Wegen deiner Lebersorgen denke ich, es wäre natürlich ideal, wenn du mit weiteren Hashimoto Patienten in Kontakt treten könntest, die, ebenso wie du, ebenfalls anderweitig von Kratom profitieren, aber wie findet man die? Einige aus dem Forum schauen sich schon um und ich hoffe, dass dabei was  rauskommt.  > Nebenbei erwähnt, ich gestalte inzwischen Plakatwände (Real Voices of Kratom) … ich weiss nicht, ob du vielleicht schon welche davon gesehen hast? Jedenfalls, es handelt sich um wahrheitsgetreue Aussagen von Kratomnutzern, mit realem Namen unterschrieben (oft auch mit Foto), auf grünen, virtuellen Plakatwänden abgebildet.  > Von diesem Projekt versprechen wir uns, als Patienten wahrgenommen zu werden, echte Menschen mit echten Krankheiten, denen Kratom hilft. Dazu haben wir eine Webseite gegründet: http://realvoicesofkratom.org ... wenn du mal Lust hast und vorbeischauen magst.  > > Machs gut derweil und a Trumm Busserl!  ;) > ~ Funny * * * Hi Funny! Thank you and how are you? your posters look great. I currently take until I know more, just a teaspoon of kratom a week. That has to be enough for the moment and I'm fine too.

@'FunnyGermanGirl': > Servus Karl :) > > wir hatten Besuch aus Deutschland und ich war dadurch eine Weile lang ziemlich vereinnahmt (kaum Zeit für die AKA), aber nun kehrt wieder etwas Ruhe ein.  > Nach dem Lesen von deinem Post wollte ich mal schauen, wie es dir derweil geht. Ich hoffe, alles im grünen Bereich?  > Wegen deiner Lebersorgen denke ich, es wäre natürlich ideal, wenn du mit weiteren Hashimoto Patienten in Kontakt treten könntest, die, ebenso wie du, ebenfalls anderweitig von Kratom profitieren, aber wie findet man die? Einige aus dem Forum schauen sich schon um und ich hoffe, dass dabei was  rauskommt.  > Nebenbei erwähnt, ich gestalte inzwischen Plakatwände (Real Voices of Kratom) … ich weiss nicht, ob du vielleicht schon welche davon gesehen hast? Jedenfalls, es handelt sich um wahrheitsgetreue Aussagen von Kratomnutzern, mit realem Namen unterschrieben (oft auch mit Foto), auf grünen, virtuellen Plakatwänden abgebildet.  > Von diesem Projekt versprechen wir uns, als Patienten wahrgenommen zu werden, echte Menschen mit echten Krankheiten, denen Kratom hilft. Dazu haben wir eine Webseite gegründet: http://realvoicesofkratom.org ... wenn du mal Lust hast und vorbeischauen magst.  > > Machs gut derweil und a Trumm Busserl!  ;) > ~ Funny There has to be a way to translate this! (Funny German girl, real funny! {get it?!lol “funnygermangirl}

@'Rob83': > There has to be a way to translate this! (Funny German girl, real funny! {get it?!lol “funnygermangirl} :huh: I know….it’s all in like....France land talk....if only there was some website Or program thingie we could type in questions and stuff and had it look up facts and stuff...... :angel: