@'Rob83':
> i don't know if i'm contradicting twist and bizarro but i would feel taking 15-25g of kratom for 6 weeks with oxy (sometimes) would cause mild discomfort.
Not contradictory, Rob, just slightly off on the details. He was apparently taking it intermittently, no set amount, not steadily & often concomitantly _with_ the oxy (same day, etc). Hence the confusion. This is just one of those threads that you have to read closely to get the details right.
It's nice to see you, Rob. Actually, it's _always_ a pleasure when you &/or Biz show up at "my house", lol. Don't be strangers, either one of you, ok?
Took kratom for post op pain now bummed
@'Bizaro22':
> Tapering is definitely the preferred method and an easier transition. Also, a lot of the discomfort can be mental. Not all, but it does play a role. When you know you're not taking anything and just waiting to feel any reaction, you will dwell on things you normally wouldn't. Keep you mind off of it and get some exercise. You should be back to new within a week.
Darn it, Biz, you always beat me to my own words so, _for once_, I am going to be kind to my fingers & say …
**… What he said ^^^** :rolleyes:
Please keep us up on how you're doing, ok, ansony?
@'itzatwist':
> Not contradictory, Rob, just slightly off on the details. He was apparently taking it intermittently, no set amount, not steadily & often concomitantly _with_ the oxy (same day, etc). Hence the confusion. This is just one of those threads that you have to read closely to get the details right.
>
> It's nice to see you, Rob. Actually, it's _always_ a pleasure when you &/or Biz show up at "my house", lol. Don't be strangers, either one of you, ok?
Lol. I plan to be around more. Been crazy past few months. Just haven’t had extra time to really browse nor respond. But it’s good to shoot the shit with biz and you.
Sure. The details need to be sifted with a fine comb. Intermittently maybe not I guess. But daily use of mitra and Oxus would def cause discomfort after 6 weeks. Biz is also right with the mind over matter thing as well.
@'Rob83':
> Lol. I plan to be around more. Been crazy past few months. Just haven’t had extra time to really browse nor respond. But it’s good to shoot the shit with biz and you.
>
> Sure. The details need to be sifted with a fine comb. Intermittently maybe not I guess. But daily use of mitra and Oxus would def cause discomfort after 6 weeks. **Biz is also right with the mind over matter thing as well.**
Yeh, I think you, Biz & I know this sad fact only too well & the mind can be a horrible taskmaster especially when it has developed a ritual, any ritual that brings with it a reward. In this instance, the ritual is downing oxy or kratom & the reward is that both of them result in less pain. Once your mind has learned (habitualized) that ritual-reward pattern it becomes a hard habit to break. You know, like Pavlov's dogs. So, yes, mentally there can be a void that is left where the ritual-reward used to be.
My point to ansony was centered entirely on the possibility of _physical_ withdrawal. While the mind may crave the habit, the body is not reacting physically to the absence of kratom. Dependence versus addiction. You are talking oranges (mental) & I am talking apples (physical) while Biz has them both covered in one of his famous fruit salads.
So, yes Rob, I believe all three of us are absolutely correct & I should have made my point more clear. Thanks to both of you.
_Now, please pass the fruit salad, Biz … :P_
To the OP. Kratom has many benefits as we all know. And one of the most frequently used lines in our world is “well, you may have been on oxy or percocets, morphine, etc” as cliche as it is it’s the truth. Most people that utilize kratom are not using it just to use it. Sure, some for social (younger people) but most adults have been introduced to this plant for medical or dependency reasons. If you opt to take kratom and are worried about liver enzymes, god only know what the prescription would have done.
We are talking about a leaf that is grown, picked, milled and consumed.
Hi ansony, and a warm welcome to the forum! :welcomewave:
I am both a bit shocked and concerned after thoroughly reading through your posts, as I rarely come across posts where someone is taking such high amounts of kratom on a single day, let alone in combination with opiates. At the same time, I'm confused as to the amounts you've actually been consuming. Please help me out.
In your first post you state you have been taking 15 g-25 g daily:
"I've been taking 15 to 25 "gms" of kratom daily for post op. joint surgery.", and, "The last day I took kratom was Sunday. I took around 25 gms."
In an additional post you're stating you took 10 "mg" per day, so 10 milligrams instead of 10 grams? :huh:
"I only took both 5 mg of oxy and 10 mg or so of kratom on the same day about 3 or 4 times."
Had you indeed meant grams instead of milligrams, this might even mean you were taking between 30 grams and up to 50 grams per day, taking into account the 3-5 times daily.
Now, when reading on, the amounts change back to 5 "gms" or 10 "gms" (all along assuming you meant "g", the proper abbreviation for gram).
However it may be, Kratom is an excellent natural and safe alternative one can utilize to replace opiates. itzatwist's brilliant response, explaining in great detail why it may not be beneficial to use opiates concurrent with kratom, remains unmatched. I would add that exceeding a normal dose of kratom may indeed cause anxiety, rather than rid of it, but whatever the case may be, personally, if I took "only" 10-15 grams of kratom per day my body would reject it altogether by way of vomit.
Just the other day, actually, on April 29, a new member, Justin Harris, states:
"Kratom has gotten me off all opiates. Enough said."
To which "designerkratom" so excellently summoned it up in his response:
"Remember, a Kratom user chooses to stop taking opiates, tries Kratom, and figures out if it works for them."
Food for thought.
All my best to you on your surgery recovery! :)
Smiles
~Funny
Good advice all around although I'd have to say that I know many people who take @ 25 grams of Kratom daily (not newbies tho). I don't recommend it, and I don't personally, but know quite a few who do. Just sayin….
@'Bizaro22':
> Good advice all around although I'd have to say that I know many people who take @ 25 grams of Kratom daily (not newbies tho). I don't recommend it, and I don't personally, but know quite a few who do. Just sayin….
Yet again, I am left with this … **What he Said ^^^ :cool:**
_By the way, your fruit salad is great, Biz …_** :D**
I take anywhere between 18-22g per day. I wake up everyday at 3:45-4:00am and usually hit the rack by 9:00 pm so over a 17 hour period I’m right around 20g or so. I’d like to get it down but (3) 5g burns per day over 17 hours with some small booster burns isn’t a concern.
And like biz I know MANY people that burn 20+g a day. It appears most do. When you hear someone say they burn (1) teaspoon. IME (1) Tspn level with medium grind is around 3-4g. Fine ground or flour consistency even more. Most say they burn (2-3) teaspoons 3X a day. Or twice a day. That’s over 20g per day
Funnygermangirl I did mean grams. I took kratom only twice a day many times only once. Usually a heaping teaspoon. I weighed a heaping teaspoon to be 10 - 12 grams. I'm tapering down to stop. I took 5 gms yesterday and 4 gms today. Only one time.
@'ansony':
> Funnygermangirl I did mean grams. I took kratom only twice a day many times only once. Usually a heaping teaspoon. I weighed a heaping teaspoon to be 10 - 12 grams. I'm tapering down to stop. I took 5 gms yesterday and 4 gms today. Only one time.
I think you may be confusing a teaspoon with a tablespoon, ansony. The most weight I can get on a teaspoon, even a big one, is 3 maybe 4 grams & that is heaping, _very_ heaping.
Care to take a photo of the spoon you are using?
That may shed some light on the confusion here … ;)
I would think a heaping teaspoon isn't any more than 4-5 grams max. Did you actually weigh it? You might be doing less than you think.
ETA: haha….you beat me this time Twist! **What she said ^^^^**
Twist, you and I favorite vendors type grind is roughly 3-3.5g for a teaspoon. Flour consistency will weigh more. Must be tablespoons our fellow member is talking about.
That kind of makes my point a few posts back. Half seem to weigh out and half go by measuring spoons. Can’t really assume what your doing if not weighing. When people say “wow 15-25g a day is a lot” but they themselves burn 2-4 teaspoons a day or more. They are right with the 20g folks.
I know what a teaspoon is and i weighed it. Chocolate bentungie weighed 10 grams or so. A good heaping teaspoon
It's counter-intuitive, but less is more with Kratom. Most eventually figure this out, but let me save you some time.
@'ansony':
> I know what a teaspoon is and i weighed it. Chocolate bentungie weighed 10 grams or so. A good heaping teaspoon
Ok, so how bout this, were you using an actual measuring spoon or a spoon from your silverware drawer, you know, the teaspoons you eat with? I'm _very_ intrigued by the prospect of being able to pile that much kratom onto a teaspoon … I mean, that takes some special talent!
And, again, Biz is absolutely correct, less is more. Believe it or not, I have tested that theory several times & it really is true.
Bottom line, taper yourself down on the kratom which will allow your mind the time it needs to adjust to the loss of the "ritual-reward" habit. Most importantly, be kind to yourself, be patient with yourself ... your body is still recovering from surgery after all :shy:
@'ansony':
> 3 hours sleep last night. I feel Okay I just can't sleep. Frustrating
It sounds like you will need to set up a precise regimen, ansony. You know, strain/amount/time of day. When you have this regimen set in place you can begin to slowly taper it down if it is your intention to stop using kratom altogether. Also, I would advise not using any of your Whites, at least until you get your anxiety issue tamed. I say this because Whites are energetic to almost edgy, you know, like too much caffeine. I, personally, cannot use Whites for that very reason. So, just set the Whites aside for now, ok?
_Now, for an example of a good regimen of schedule … _
_Morning_; take a teaspoon (~3 grams) of one of your Greens & please use an actual measuring spoon, not those giant spoons you have, lol. If you have a scale make certain the amount is approximately 3 grams.
_Noon'ish_; take a teaspoon (~3 grams) of another one of your greens.
_Late afternoon_: Begin to move into your Reds by taking 1/2 teaspoon each of a Green & a Red. The total amount should still be ~3 grams, so 1 1/2 grams of each. I know this can be tricky but I also know you can do it.
_Night_: take a teaspoon (~3 grams) of one of your Reds. Try to choose one of the most relaxing Reds you have.
This adds up to a total of around 12 grams per day. Once you get comfortable on the schedule you create for yourself then you can begin your taper.
Has anyone ever given you the very general Rule of Thumb regarding strain colors?
I will put it here, just in case.
_Reds_; Moderate pain relief (the best of all the colors), relaxing (the most relaxing strain color), long legs (long duration of effect).
_Greens_; Middle-of-the-road, slightly less pain relief than the Reds, uplifting, medium to long legs.
_Whites_; Very little to no pain relief (least of all the colors), energetic to edgy (too edgy for many people, especially those suffering from anxiety & insomnia), very short legs (shortest legs of all the other colors).
Let me know what your actual regimen is & how you are doing with it, ok?
I weighed and took 3 grams yesterday around 5 pm. Today I took 2 gms at 2:30\. I have a digital scale. Both times red maeng da. I will take 1 gm tomorrow then quit for awhile. I'll let you know how it goes. I don't really have much anxiety anymore. I just can't fall asleep. I never intended to take it daily until the surgery. Before that I would take it once or twice a week for energy to get things done. It would be nice if there was comprehensive info that could be trusted. I've read so many different things. It is an enjoyable plant! Thanks for your help and concern!!!!!! I really appreciate it.